Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by seahawks7757 » 11 Feb 2009, 06:41

With FSX they have managed to get it onto 1 controller with the 360 wired joystick.
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by FJ flyer » 12 Feb 2009, 04:07

http://members.microsoft.com/careers/se ... E92F108D14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Join the team responsible for building the most fun and rewarding flying experiences available on Games for Windows Live. Does working on a small, innovative team that delivers the most immersive flight experiences available today on the PC intrigue you? Our technology makes available entire continents - potentially the entire planet - for a detailed and dynamic 3D experience. We are looking for a Project Art Lead who can define, refine, and extend the visual elements while balancing the need for fun and approachability for a broad set of users.
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by RatherBFlyin » 12 Feb 2009, 06:02

"Potentially the entire planet?" To me that sounds like a big step down from FSX if they aren't sure they will be providing global coverage.

And it's for Live. :(

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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by FJ flyer » 12 Feb 2009, 06:10

RatherBFlyin wrote:And it's for Live. :(
Excactly, personally I think that the next flight sim (if there is one) will be a "Game".
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by Mr. Boeing » 12 Feb 2009, 21:30

Not sure if this will help but I just found this link: http://new.petitiononline.com/MSFS/petition.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Its a petition to save FS.
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by Ryan » 14 Feb 2009, 00:20

Well thankfully we have FS9 and FSX for many years to come.

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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by Ryan » 14 Feb 2009, 02:50

This was posted by Robert over on PMDG's forum http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=241934" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
rsrandazzo wrote:Captains-

During the past few days we have received a number of email from friends and notables within the simulation community seeking PMDG's opinion on the news that Microsoft found it necessary to lay off the ACES development staff.

I've found time to chat privately with some folks, and I thought that all of you might be interested to know PMDG's view of what is taking place, and what will happen down the road.

To start with, this announcement was not a surprise to PMDG. Slightly more than a year and a half ago, we were briefed-in on the commercial adaptation of Microsoft's Sim-World that became known as ESP. (Microsoft Enterprise Simulation Platform: essentially a commercial grade world simulation upon which companies like PMDG could design, build and sell simulation technologies to industries such as aviation, marine, law enforcement, etc.) At the time we were briefed-in, the expectation was that the ESP platform would become the parent project and primary development platform from which child-projects Flight Simulator and Train Simulator would spring.

While the idea sounded exciting, and we were encouraged to learn that Microsoft was pouring vast resources into the development of an enterprise level simulation platform, (this could only have positive benefits for the Flight Simulator platform) I have spent enough of my time in large corporations to know that this move forward did not come without some risk. Obviously, I could not have prognosticated the total collapse of the financial system (or I'd have been short selling my own shorts and I'd be writing this from Fiji!) but at the time I had some concern that having our beloved Flight Simulator become a child-project to an enterprise level platform would increase the costs of development in the near term, invite a level of scrutiny and potentially a level of cost analysis that here-to-for had not been present.

When the news broke late last week that Microsoft had made the strategic decision to shut down ESP development, it had the appearance of inevitability to PMDG. Earlier in 2008 I had spent a significant amount of time working with a large, potential ESP client and after a few months of evaluation the general feeling was that the ESP concept had merit, but was not yet ready for prime-time use by the commercial simulation industry. I know of others who were conducting similar analysis and reaching the same conclusion, and it became apparent during mid 2008 that ESP was a great concept that would allow companies like PMDG to carry our capability into the commercial training market, but that the ESP platform itself was not yet strong enough to make such products an 'easy sell' to the target audience.

It would appear that Microsoft, eager to cut costs, protect earnings and save jobs reached the same conclusion.

In large corporations, it is often necessary to take drastic measures quickly, even though it will be necessary to do some cleanup after the fact. At United Airlines, we used to joke that when it was necessary to conduct a slaughter, we'd wield the swords first, then lay down the plastic to keep the blood out of the carpets afterward.

To put it another way: Act Quickly First and Act Correctly Second.

I think that much of the pulling of hair and gnashing of teeth over the past few days is indicative of how strongly many of us feel about our hobby and our chosen simulation platform. But I also think that when we look back on this event from the future, we'll discover that much of the drama was overblown and borne out of confusion and lack of understanding.

Microsoft has not rendered a final death certificate on Flight Simulator. To the contrary, there have been numerous blog posts and other official and unofficial comments to the effect that the Flight Simulator franchise is very important to Microsoft. From where I stand, knowing what i do about the way large corporations move, I suspect that Flight Simulator 11 is not dead, it is simply orphaned on a temporary basis.

Understand that with the advent of ESP, Flight Simulator ceased being an independently developed platform, and instead it became the child of the much larger and more developer-cost intensive ESP. When Microsoft made the strategic decision to kill ESP, they likely did so without much regard for the child projects underneath, as they would expect to clean up those details at a later date.

The fact that Microsoft has been abundantly clear that TrainSim2 is dead- but has offered no such verdict on Flight Simulator is another reason to be hopeful for the future.

Without getting into the logistical technicalities of brain-drain from the ACES team, potential documentary gaps, and hands-on experience with the FS code platform- I have some hope that this event, while frightening, may actually be a good breakpoint for the Flight Simulator franchise. I would suspect that it may take a year, possibly slightly longer, for Microsoft to make a determination of how it wants to proceed with Flight Simulator after the dissolution of the ESP project. This may require bringing together a whole new batch of developers, and it may involved merging new developers into a reconstituted team of historical developers, but either way- I'd anticipate new blood and new ideas.

With this infusion of new vision- we COULD ultimately wind up with a version of Flight Simulator that actually exceeds our expectations and offers beneficial new technologies at the core of the simulation, rather than just slightly rewarmed older legacy technologies that are hampering forward progress and development for the franchise.

If I were to head down to Vegas to place bets, my money would be on 15months until more news becomes available, and another 2 years after that before we see a new version of flight simulator.

Either way- at PMDG we are not overly concerned by all of these events. We still have new proejcts coming down the approach path for you, the hobby lives on, and we intend to continue supporting the hobby because we are confident of its long term viability. None of this is going on because of perceived shortcomings with FSX- and none of this is happening because is ignorant of the popularity of this hobby. All of this is happening because of the way large corporations do business- and over time the dust will settle to reveal the "new normal."

In the mean time, we have plenty of work ahead of us- and no matter what happens to our hobby- whether it be a resurgence from Microsoft or an entirely new platform upon which to build our simulations, you can count on PMDG to continue bringing you the finest airliner simulations possible given the tools available.

POST EDIT: A few thoughts I intended to include but left out while writing last night... Much has been said to the effect that somehow this was related to poor sales of FSX. The market data published by various organizations who handle such information shows to the contrary that FSX has been a banner seller in the flight simulator franchise history. I think that many in our community have mistaken "Acceptance" and "Sales" as interchangeable numbers when they are not. Our community was slow to adopt FSX because of it's documented problems running high end airliner simulations, AI traffic and scenery, but this has not had an appreciable impact on the actual sales of the product. In short: Sales rates on FSX are good, and they continue to be strong- so the negative reaction from many in this community to FSX is really not a factor here. From the standpoint of a corporation the size of Microsoft, the costs associated with ESP are a much larger concern than the opinion of this very small little community of ours. (We ARE small... I know it might not seem like it- but we are!)
Robert is 100% right.

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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by RatherBFlyin » 14 Feb 2009, 06:10

That post echoes what I said some time ago. The ball is now in Microsoft's court, and it is up to them to make or break the FS franchise. There are a number of different ways they can go with it from a business standpoint, and unfortunately most of those would end up cheapening the product. Yes, they can make some substantial improvements in FS11 and raise the standard yet again. However, they could also very easily make FS11 into a Flight Game instead of a Flight Simulator.

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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by Dennis » 14 Feb 2009, 15:45

That's what we all fear.

Will they take the preferred way and develop a FS11 that exceeds FSX or will they simply leave it be and turn it into a game (similar to PilotWings for Nintendo platforms)?

Like Robert said, I don't think FSX is something to blame. Sales are good and many people I know have made the switch to FSX. The only thing you really need is a computer that can run it. Other than that, everything is similar to FS9 (except graphics, of course).
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by BAConcorde » 19 Mar 2009, 03:20

FS9 was an amazing release. I haven't tried to install FSX even though I have owned it for over a year now. I know it will run on XP but the graphics and stuff look more like it was built for Vista which I refuse to get. I hope they do continue the FS series, but with the economy the way it is it might be some time before they put out another version.
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by maverick10 » 13 Aug 2009, 20:45

Why don't they make a very big update for fsx and make it like fs9, but with the textures of fs9.

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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by RatherBFlyin » 13 Aug 2009, 20:57

There are a number of things that make FSX a big improvement over FS9, and I don't think I would ever go back to running FS9. The biggest drawback with FSX though is the large jump in computing power that is needed to make it run well. Not just good, but well. The only reason I am able to run FSX is because I got a great deal on a new PC, and I can now run FSX with pretty much the same settings I was able to run FS9 on my old PC. My old PC just couldn't handle FSX (you should have seen the fits it had when I tried to run Oblivion on it :P).

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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by maverick10 » 13 Aug 2009, 21:02

maverick10 wrote:Why don't they make a very big update for fsx and make it like fs9, but with the textures of fs9.

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I mean the textures of fsx :lol:
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by Dennis » 14 Aug 2009, 02:14

Because it wouldn't be FSX then. It would be FS9. Things are built so that there's some compatibility with the previous product (aka reverse compatibility), but not the other way around. Making FSX textures load and look like FS9 will mean a step back from the new product to revert to the old one. That's not an improvement, is it?

Speaking of FSX, I have finally opened my new computer so it's only a matter of time before I load her up with FSX and add-ons and compare it with FS9 and determine which one is better in the long run.
And speaking of past simulators, OfficeMax still sells FS8 for $9.99. I'm tempted to buy it just to say I have history in my hands. :lol:
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by flybywire22 » 14 Aug 2009, 05:00

Dennis wrote:And speaking of past simulators, OfficeMax still sells FS8 for $9.99. I'm tempted to buy it just to say I have history in my hands. :lol:
:rolling: Do they have them laying around from the stone age or is Microsoft still spitting that history out of the factory?
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by Dennis » 14 Aug 2009, 13:23

Neither. Microsoft doesn't produce FS9 anymore, let alone previous versions. But Office Max doesn't have this simulator laying around. It's with other CD games that aren't produced anymore. Did I mention it's the professional version? :laugh:
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Re: Microsoft Flight Simulator's Future In Question

Post by cpt nick » 18 Aug 2009, 22:54

Dennis wrote:Neither. Microsoft doesn't produce FS9 anymore, let alone previous versions. But Office Max doesn't have this simulator laying around. It's with other CD games that aren't produced anymore. Did I mention it's the professional version? :laugh:
I can pick up FS98 in poundland, a cookie for anyone who can guess how much it cost :rolling: :rolling:

I find old flight sims easily around here, in charity shops, bargain buckets, I even bought FS2002 for £9.99 in Woolworths before they went under. FS2002 looks like it is distributed by a company called Xplosion.
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