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Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 21:05
by Dennis
Alitalia accepted Air France/KLM's bid.

News

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 21:06
by sanins192
I think we were all expecting this, but I didn't imagine it to happen so soon.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 21:33
by soxr
Awesome! Like Alex said, this was expected, but I'm surprised how quickly everything got settled (considering the airline in hand)!

Another link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7299203.stm

Aniruddh Chhabra

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 21:34
by capewellavc
Thank god it's all over!

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 22:12
by NWADC9
GREAT!

So, for clarification, Alitalia will be like KLM in that AZ will still be flying around as AZ and not AF?

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 22:15
by sanins192
I believe so. The AZ brand name will stay, and I believe the livery will aslo stay the same. I guess there may be a small AZ-NW-AF logo somewhere on the body.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 16 Mar 2008, 22:46
by Aaron Robinson
capewellavc wrote:Thank god it's all over!

Hardly. We've reached this level before, but there are still union and government issues to sort out too. The latter is especially interesting, given upcoming national elections.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 00:04
by seahawks7757
So if that name goes away will we offer AZ. Classic or a new VA?

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 00:07
by CaseyD
AZ will not go away per government conditions.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 00:14
by sanins192
seahawks7757 wrote:So if that name goes away will we offer AZ. Classic or a new VA?


We will continue to offer Alitalia, no matter what happens to it. I believe if the brand name and airline were to merge into another airline (highly unlikely), we will offer a historic VA, like Varig. If the operations continue to flow under the AZ name and branding, I think we will adapt and keep the schedules and aircraft up to date.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 02:45
by THA346
I think the Alitalia we offer will remain the same as the Alitalia we offered before the purchase by Air France-KLM.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 03:41
by Northwestdc9
The Alitalia brand isn't going anywhere and we'll be following the real airline.

Very good to see Air France-KLM step in, Alitalia really needs all the help it can get.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 11:06
by Martin the Warrior
Air France-KLM has an incredible profit for an airline. With them at the helm, Alitalia should have a fighting chance to turn around.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 13:40
by CaseyD
They have an increadible profit for a few reasons. Some being:
1) Government Backed
2) Monopolies within their own areas
3) They're two airlines in one.

If they were forced to survive without any of these three things, they would die (at least AF would) rather quickly. Air France has horrible service, tight seats, a mess of a fleet, and poor first/business on most international flights. KLM is better, but they're going 10 abreast on the 777s which is NOT appealing.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 15:22
by Northwestdc9
1. The French Government owns something like 10% of Air France-KLM, it's there to ensure jobs in France not finance the airline.
2. Somewhat true but most airlines have something similar like American at Dallas/Ft. Worth.
A major and increasingly threatening competitor to Air France-KLM's short regional flights is the TGV, it's not as fast but when you factor in all the security hassles, time at the airport, etc it's getting close.
3. So? Both airlines are profitable on their own, very profitable in fact.

Air France certainly wouldn't die, be in a little pain maybe but die? Definitely not.
KLM is doing 10 abreast on the 777-300ERs which are being used to high density destinations.
You know the airline that started 10 abreast on the 777s was your precious British Airways in 2001... it's still using 10 abreast on it's 3 class 777s and about half on their 4 class 777s....

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 15:39
by capewellavc
Whats wrong with a row of 10 in a 777? I was on an Emirates aircraft two weeks ago with that setup and found nothing wrong with it... in-fact gave me more room to lie out (the flight was empty). Aisle space was fine and seat width was ample...

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 17:32
by CaseyD
Ample isn't good. plus if you're on the window you have another person to crawl over to get out. Not appealing to me.

Somewhat true but most airlines have something similar like American at Dallas/Ft. Worth.


France is a country, last time I checked, Dallas wasn't.

The French Government owns something like 10% of Air France-KLM, it's there to ensure jobs in France not finance the airline.


And you think no where in there the govt. makes any decisions, even little ones? Even owning only 10% of it (if that's a true statistic) means the government does have a say, which in most cases aids the airline.

Air France certainly wouldn't die, be in a little pain maybe but die?


No, because it has no competition.

You know the airline that started 10 abreast on the 777s was your precious British Airways in 2001... it's still using 10 abreast on it's 3 class 777s and about half on their 4 class 777s....


The 777s that have it are rare and used for shorter flights. KLM and Air France are doing it on their entire 777 fleets. BA also has 3 classes on that aircraft where KLM and AF have only 2.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 18:04
by capewellavc
BA is owned to a small extent by the British government, albeit quietly. Emirates offer 17'' which is industry standard.

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 18:08
by CaseyD
On Delta Connection CRJs it's 17.5...

Re: Alitalia sold to Air France

Posted: 17 Mar 2008, 18:42
by Aaron Robinson
Martin the Warrior wrote:Air France-KLM has an incredible profit for an airline. With them at the helm, Alitalia should have a fighting chance to turn around.

http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=9010

Actually, in the last fiscal year, their revenue was €23.07 billion, and operating profit was €1.24 billion, a 5.4% margin, rather average. What makes the profit so large is, as Casey mentioned, that they have two airlines together, but also that non-airline operations (MRO, for example) is included.
Northwestdc9 wrote:You know the airline that started 10 abreast on the 777s was your precious British Airways in 2001... it's still using 10 abreast on it's 3 class 777s and about half on their 4 class 777s....

See http://www.britishairways.com/travel/wo ... blic/en_gb
capewellavc wrote:Whats wrong with a row of 10 in a 777? I was on an Emirates aircraft two weeks ago with that setup and found nothing wrong with it... in-fact gave me more room to lie out (the flight was empty). Aisle space was fine and seat width was ample...

There are two growing standards in the world, designed for different types of people. Americans, who are the heaviest demographic, prefer wider seats. Thinner Europeans and Asians can afford to sacrifice the width in favor of a larger seat pitch. There is no one 'right' solution--it depends on your traffic mix.

Let's try to ignore the question of seating configuration and refocus on Air France-KLM and Alitalia.