Codeshare routes

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Dave B

Codeshare routes

Post by Dave B » 23 Aug 2006, 21:29

I mentioned just now on the "what's the biggest problem" thread that I had an idea on codeshares, so here it is.

Setting up and maintinaing specific codeshare flights requires management time (relationships with partners, maintaining the schedules on the website etc.) which is clearly going to limit expansion in this area, especially with the shortage of VA managers.

However, for over half of our airlines we use the real-world timetables (Skyteam and Star Alliance, plus a couple of airline specific ones), which indicate quite clearly which are codeshare flights and who actually operates the aircraft. If we were allowed to fly those, it would open up a whole range of addiditional options, with perhaps minimal additional work for Aaron etc.

I'm guessing the main problem would be maintaining the drop-down list of a/c in the PIREP, which would presumably be necessary if the PIREP validation were automated. I don't know if that's the case, but if it's a manual process, a workaround could be simply to add a generic "Codeshare" aircraft to the list and ask the pilot to put the a/c type in the comments box.

I daresay there's a host of reasons I haven't thought of why this isn't feasible, but I thought I'd suggest it anyway.

Dave

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Post by rcattig » 24 Aug 2006, 02:30

I like the idea, then again I just read it but still, sounds good to me. I know that the only reason that I'm so keen on codeshares is cause TLV isnt served very well without them and I know that we could get some interesting stuff if we got codeshares but whatever.

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Post by Northwestdc9 » 25 Aug 2006, 02:01

I'd like to see an AA codeshare with BA and AS !! United with AC and ANA.
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Post by NWADC9 » 25 Aug 2006, 03:58

AA has some serious issues in regards to copyrights and the like.
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Post by Northwestdc9 » 25 Aug 2006, 06:34

I know but we wouldn't be opening AA Virtual we'd be codesharing with them.
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Post by RatherBFlyin » 25 Aug 2006, 14:43

I fly a lot of those flights anyway, I just don't file them here.

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Post by Northwestdc9 » 25 Aug 2006, 20:32

Yeah same here. I fly a LOT for AA, UA, US/HP.
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Post by Aaron Robinson » 25 Aug 2006, 22:58

What restricts our ability to offer codeshare flights?
1. Real-world codeshares
2. Virtual airlines that exist based on those VAs
3. Virtual airlines that meet our quality standards
4. Virtual airlines that wish to partner with us

1. Real-world codeshares
Here's a list of every airline that our current VAs codeshare with. For your reference, I've bolded the airlines that are not part of SimAirline.net, whether now or in the future. Please note that some airlines' operations are embedded (for instance, Crossair as part of Swissair Virtual).

Aer Lingus, Aeroflot, AeroMexico, Air Alps, Air China, Air Europa, Air France, Air India, Air Jamaica, Air Malta, Air Mauritius, Air New Zealand, Air Seychelles, All Nippon Airways, Alaska, Alpeagles, American, Ansett Australia, AOM, Asiana, Austrian, Avianca, Big Sky, BMI, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Northern, China Southern, Continental, Copa, Croatia Airlines, Crossair, CSA Czech Airlines, Cyprus Airways, Delta, Dragonair, EgyptAir, El Al, Emirates, Era Aviation, EVA Air, Finnair, Flybe, Garuda Indonesia, GOL, Gulf Air, Gulfstream, Hapagfly, Hawaiian, Helijet Airways, Horizon, Iberia, Island Air, JAL, JAT Yugoslav, Kenya Airways, KLM, Korean Air, LAN, LOT Polish Airlines, Lufthansa, Luxair, Malaysia Airlines, MALEV Hungarian, Martinair, Meridiana, Mexicana, Middle East Airlines, Niki, Northwest, Oman Air, Peninsula Airways, Philippine Airlines, Portugalia, Pulkovo Aviation, Qantas, Qatar Airways, Royal Air Maroc, Sabena, SAS, Shanghai Airlines, Singapore Airlines, SN Brussels Airlines, South African, Spanair, SriLankan, Sterling, Swiss, Swissair, TAM, TAP, TAROM Romanian, Thai, Tunis Air, Turkish, Ukraine International, United, US Airways, Varig, Vietnam Airlines, Virgin Atlantic

That's 102 airlines. Of those, I bolded 74.

2. Virtual airlines that exist based on those VAs
By my count, of those remaining 74, only 25 have active virtual counterparts.

Aer Lingus, Air China, Air Europa, Air France, Air India, Air Jamaica, Air Malta, Air Mauritius, Air New Zealand, Air Seychelles, Alpeagles, American, Ansett Australia, Asiana, Austrian, Avianca, BMI, China Airlines, China Eastern, China Northern, Croatia Airlines, CSA Czech Airlines, Cyprus Airways, EgyptAir, El Al, EVA Air, Finnair, Flybe, Garuda Indonesia, GOL, Gulf Air, Hapagfly, Helijet Airways, Iberia, Island Air, JAL, JAT Yugoslav, Kenya Airways, LAN, LOT Polish Airlines, Lufthansa, Luxair, Malaysia Airlines, MALEV Hungarian, Martinair, Meridiana, Mexicana, Middle East Airlines, Niki, Oman Air, Philippine Airlines, Portugalia, Pulkovo Aviation, Qantas, Qatar Airways, Royal Air Maroc, SAS, Shanghai Airlines, Singapore Airlines, SN Brussels Airlines, Spanair, SriLankan, Sterling, Swiss, TAM, TAP, TAROM Romanian, Tunis Air, Turkish, Ukraine International, United, US Airways, Vietnam Airlines

3. Virtual airlines that meet our quality standards
4. Virtual airlines that wish to partner with us

Sorry, but I'm not willing to publicly narrow it down in these areas.

What's my point? Four partners (Ansett Australia, CSA Czech Airlines, Lufthansa, Turkish) is not unlikely. Would we like more? Yes. Have we tried to have more before? Yes. I feel that to say the problem is on our end would be unfair. A codeshare partnership requires two halves, not one.

Let me frame the issue in a different context. Continental codeshares with nineteen outside airlines: AeroMexico, Air Europa, Air France, Alaska, Alitalia, American Eagle, Copa, CSA Czech Airlines, Delta, Emirates, EVA Air, Fybe, Hawaiian, Horizon, Island Air, KLM, Korean Air, Northwest, and Virgin Atlantic. Of these nineteen, twelve are part of SimAirline.net. My point? Most potential codeshare flights are already included as part of SimAirline.net, just as part of another virtual airline.
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Post by Northwestdc9 » 26 Aug 2006, 00:08

Out of the Codeshare airlines that have VAs I'd like to see us codeshare with Air France, Air New Zealand, American, Iberia, JAL, LAN, LOT, Malaysian, Qantas, SAS, Singapore, United and US Airways.
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Dave B

Post by Dave B » 26 Aug 2006, 01:34

Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't see why we have to limit things only to where there is another VA willing to link up?

Looking back, my original post perhaps wasn't as clear as it might have been - the idea was about simply permitting pilots to fly the codeshare routes from the real world timetables that we use, rather than looking for partner VAs. For example, Gatwick/Brussels is a codeshare in the BA timetable, but the it's actually operated by SN Brussels - it's a route I'd quite like to fly, as I use it from time-to-time in the real world, but at the moment I can't (yes, I know that many of you fly other routes anyway without logging a PIREP, but for sad people like me that's a plain waste of "VA hours").

Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not unhappy with what we've got, and I wasn't looking to spark a discussion on wanting this airline or that destination. It just struck me that there might be a relatively low maintenance way of satisfying (to some extent) the various calls I see on these boards for expansion, using what we already have, except for a (hopefully) small change to the PIREP.

Dave

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Post by Northwestdc9 » 26 Aug 2006, 01:48

I fly different airlines like AA and UA, US/HP in FS and it would be nice to be able to log them as a PIREP. I know my hours flown would triple because I fly for other airlines a lot.
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Post by Aaron Robinson » 26 Aug 2006, 01:51

I can't see why we have to limit things only to where there is another VA willing to link up?

Because this removes the entire structure and purpose of having a virtual airline based on an individual airline. Virtual British Airways doesn't exist for the purpose of flying flights of British Airways plus American, Cathay Pacific, Iberia, Qantas, etc. It exists to fly British Airways. Were we to offer every codeshare partner regardless, then we'd have to maintain their fleets as well; it would effectively cease to be a British Airways-based VA. The same argument is true for our other VAs.
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Dave B

Post by Dave B » 26 Aug 2006, 12:01

Virtual British Airways doesn't exist for the purpose of flying flights of British Airways plus American, Cathay Pacific, Iberia, Qantas, etc

I agree, but then this isn't quite the same. Only certain flights are operated as codeshare, even amongst alliance partners - I'm not talking about extending BA to One World etc..

Were we to offer every codeshare partner regardless, then we'd have to maintain their fleets as well...

A key difference bewteen a SimAirline operator and that of a codeshare flight would be that the SimAirline.net didn't support the fleet (or destination lists/maps etc.) of the codeshare provider. The value of being a SimAirline VA would not, therefore, be diminished in my view.

Aaron, I hope you don't think I'm on a campaign trail here - I'm just offering food for thought and interested in the discussion. I joined SimAirline.Net because I liked what it already had to offer, and I've not been at all dispappointed (I voted "none" in the poll).

Dave

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Post by RSkyhawk » 16 Oct 2006, 04:13

Sorry to sound like a SimAirline newb :roll:, but how do we log codeshare flights with the existing codeshare airlines (CSA Czech Airways, Lufthansa, etc.)?

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Post by Basje » 17 Oct 2006, 18:56

You go to the PIREP page of the VA that is codesharing, for CSA, it could be Alitalia, for example. On the aircraft drop-down list, you'll find the codeshare aircraft. The airline code is the one you can find on the flights pages. :)
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Post by Iceman164016 » 17 Oct 2006, 22:34

While it would be nice to fly for a particular VA on occasion (United for me, since I usually fly out of KDEN), you have to take a step back and realize how many options we already have. Chances are that at least one of our VAs flies into any given airport, and more are on the way. So, in my opinion, we ought to be thankful for the variety that we have, support our existing airlines, and eventually we will see the addition of other airlines (I'm excited about Frontier! :D ). Sorry for the rant, just my 2 cents :wink: .

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Not sure anymore...

Post by Racoon1027 » 24 Nov 2007, 22:43

Wow!!! :shock:

All I wanted to do is humbly suggest that two more Airlines join the frey (American and United), not as codeshare but rather as full fledge VAs in SimAirline`s fleet.

After reading this forum chain, I am not sure I even dare to ask :oops: ... but then again!

Is there room for new airline additions? If you can, it would be great.

(X-Mas is coming you know)
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Post by Dennis » 24 Nov 2007, 23:04

You might want to read this: http://www.simairline.net/messageboards/viewtopic.php?t=1430&start=0

I too would be thrilled if more US airlines are added, but we're fine the way we are and it's already been decided that expansion will end. There are only 4 more airlines to be added and, provided we meet the goals for each of them, they'll come into operation, and that's it.
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Post by CaseyD » 25 Nov 2007, 00:15

As much as I would love those, well at least one, it's not going to happen. You can find numerous topics on this issue everywhere. Last few expansion airlines are set and after that, no more. Sorry.
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Post by Northwestdc9 » 25 Nov 2007, 00:33

/\ Correct. We don't even have enough management members to handle what we've got! No way we can add even more.
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